Experienced Snodgrass, newcomer Pullen field questions on variety of issues in forum

For all the popularity among voters for term limits, experience and know-how have their clear benefits. Some of those were on display when three-term State Representative Lee Snodgrass squared off with challenger and political novice Reive Pullen in the League of Women Voters Assembly District 52 forum at the Appleton Public Library on Sept. 29.

While Pullen had polished up on the issues enough to sketch out some broad ideas on subjects ranging from immigration to public education, Snodgrass was able to cull from her six years in the State Assembly to provide more nuanced, policy-driven responses.

On the matter of the state’s $3 million surplus, for example, Snodgrass warned that it was one-time money and should be used to prepare for the added burdens on states as the Trump administrations’ cuts to various programs such as SNAP and Medicaid begin to kick in.

“We saw during the COVID pandemic that there were unexpected things that the state had to deal with and had to pay for,” she said. “So I think we should use a surplus to reduce people's expenses, but I think we should do it in a way that is sustainable.”

Snodgrass also pointed to current gaps around the state that could benefit from some of the surplus money, from transportation to the Department of Natural Resources.

Pullen suggested the deficit was the result of over-taxation, though he said he did support the budget surplus compromise bill between Gov. Tony Evers and the GOP that failed at the end of last session and which would have shored up special education and provided some tax relief.

‘Doxxing’ hinted at, never mentioned

The candidates were cordial despite earlier tensions resulting from Pullen’s exposure of Snodgrass’s home address during one of his ‘Freak Out Friday’ videos that he uses to call out his opponent for past social media posts. When the topic of women’s safety came up, Pullen referred to “mistakes” without mentioning the incident itself.

“I don't want anyone to feel unsafe,” he said. “I want anybody feeling like they're going to be harmed from any instances like this. We've had certain situations where we felt we made a mistake, we made corrections and took that back to ensure that we were being respectful of other people and making sure that we weren't actually doing anything that would put anyone in harm's way.”

While not referring to that particular doxxing episode, Snodgrass was up front about the threats she has received.

“There have been death threats that are credible that have been investigated and charges were recommended,” she said. “I've received threats of violent rape and sexual violence that happens a lot to women. I think we really do need to work on making sure that folks' data and privacy is protected. This is why you need to have women at the table, and this is why it's very important to have women who are running for office be part of these conversations.”

Earlier, on the subject of political polarization, Snodgrass called out Pullen for the negative tone of his campaign, and wondered why he was focusing on her instead of issues.

Areas of agreement

Pullen, who has ties to Turning Point USA, Charlie Kirk’s conservative youth organization, agreed with Snodgrass on several issues, including, to some extent, on public education. Though he said he believes in school vouchers on the grounds of parental choice, he agreed public schools had fallen behind. 

“We have an antiquated funding formula that goes back 33 years and it doesn't keep up with inflation,” he said. “I think we do need more transparency as it relates to vouchers. I think we need to have a more even way of funding that across the board between public and private.”

Snodgrass said we are funding two separate school systems and that is wrong.

“I believe that public tax dollars should go to public entities that are accountable to the public,” she stated. “Public schools have school boards. They have to report data like test scores and information about their students. Private voucher schools do not have to do that. Private voucher schools get 90% reimbursement on special education students. Public schools currently are only getting 35%. We need to fund special education up to 90% like the voucher schools, and we need to make sure we have schools getting that general aid that they need.”

Act 10 a top issue

Pullen hedged on the subject of Act 10, the Scott Walker-era law that removed collective bargaining rights for most public employees. Pullen, who spent six years in the Marine Corps reserves and later served as a community service officer for the Appleton Police Department and as a 911 dispatcher, said opposing Act 10 was one of the issues on which he diverged from Republican orthodoxy. Still, his support for unions wasn’t full-throated.

“I'm a little conflicted in the sense that you know if we completely repeal Act 10, we are going to see billions of dollars increased on local property taxpayers,” he insisted. “At the same time, I do agree that collective bargaining has a place.” 

Snodgrass highlighted her endorsement by unions for her work in the Assembly. She said she wanted to see the repeal of Act 10 and right-to-work laws, prevailing wages for workers employed by contractors on publicly funded projects, and an increase in the minimum wage to as much as $15-20 an hour. 

“I also want to make sure that we are investing in apprenticeship programs that the unions are doing,” she said. “You can earn money right away when you work with the unions. To learn a trade, you can earn money during your apprenticeship, and you can have that support of unions, and you can be assured on the other end that that is going to be a skilled laborer who knows what they're doing, and you can trust them on projects.”

Both candidates urge caution on data centers

The two were largely in agreement when it came to the hot topic of data centers. Pullen argued that the state has all the leverage.

“We have the climate where these data centers want to come to, and I don't think we should be sitting there subsidizing them to come here and exist,” he said. “I don't want to see ratepayers or property taxpayers hurt because of data centers coming in. I don't want to look back in 20 years and say we probably shouldn't have done this because it's had a lot of impacts on our environment, ecosystems. Personally, I would support a one-year moratorium.”

Snodgrass referred to a Democratic bill last session that had input from stakeholders such as labor and environmental groups and power companies. She said the Republicans scrapped the bill without a hearing and offered their own which was so bad, she insisted, even most Republicans wouldn’t support it. It included tax incentives for data centers.

Affordability crisis

The affordability issue spilled over into peripheral issues impacting rising costs for families, including healthcare, childcare and shared revenue. Snodgrass would allow more people to buy into BadgerCare, the state’s Medicaid program. She said that would also help small businesses who want to provide insurance for their employees.

“Democrats introduced a package of bills that included capping insulin prices and making sure that we have a competitive market for drugs that come from other countries,” she said.  

As for childcare, Snodgrass pointed to the effectiveness of the Child Care Counts program funded by pandemic-era federal money that helped centers pay their workers something closer to a living wage as well as open up more slots for children. She said she favors using Shares Program money to cover what she calls the “missing middle.”

“The families who are struggling (economically) have some state funding,” she said. “And there are wealthy families who are fine on their own. We have a bill that would raise the income level for the Shares Program for those in the middle. I don't think of this as spending. I think of this as investing in families, in our workforce, in reducing expenses for everyone, and making sure that our providers can make a living.”

Pullen was wary of using government money for the childcare crisis, preferring instead to offer tax incentives for businesses to subsidize their employees’ childcare.

“I think ultimately subsidizing and creating a larger system … whether that's going to have the lasting effects we want,” he said. “I think a lot of times we're going to have some help with that in the short term, but ultimately we've continued to see issues from growing our government at unsustainable levels.”

Taxes, gerrymandering and more

As for raising taxes, Pullen pointed out that the state’s budget is the same as Illinois, even though Wisconsin has half the population. 

“We have such a large government, and I think before actually going and taking more from people, regardless of whether from the poor or very wealthy, I think we need to focus on getting back to basics,” he said.

Snodgrass pointed to a tax code which she says often taxes workers at a higher rate than people like Elon Musk or President Trump.

“You make more, you pay more,” she said. “I think that there is probably going to be in the next decade tax reform in Wisconsin as we see that people are tired of essentially having the billionaires take everything. 

“I really love (former Minnesota Senator )Paul Wellstone, who said, ‘We all do better when we all do better,’ and I believe in investing in individuals and making sure that they have the opportunity to make their lives better.”

With gerrymandering continuing to roil our politics even after fairer maps were authorized for state legislative races in 2024, both candidates agreed they would support non-partisan redistricting. Snodgrass said the state has reaped the pain of being the most gerrymandered state in the country from 2011 through 2024.

“The constituents of Wisconsin have been suffering: bills that have not been brought forward, bills that have not been passed, all because one party has dominant control,” she said. “I think we need to make sure that whatever process we put in place for nonpartisan redistricting cannot be undone in the next administration. Does that look like a constitutional amendment? Does that look like something with penalties? I'm not sure. 

“I trust the people who are part of the Fair Maps Coalition for the work that they're doing on that. We should reach out to the stakeholders who are doing that work every day, and I'm very confident that in the next legislative session, the Democrats have the majority. That we will have an opportunity to put something in place so that every vote counts.”

Pullen didn’t elaborate but said he’d like to see something more bi-partisan.

‘A unique and deep understanding’

Pullen said he deserved people’s votes on Nov. 3 because of his past service.

“(I am) somebody who enlisted in the Marine Corps and has served in our military, I've worked in law enforcement in multiple capacities, but primarily as a 911 dispatcher and dealt with people having the worst days of their lives and trying to help people every day and also looking at how I can actually contribute back in the community that has helped raise me,” he said in his final plea to the several dozen in attendance.

Snodgrass said she is ready to lead as part of the majority party after learning the ropes the past six years serving in the minority. She argued that that experience as well as her lifetime of community service will serve to make her effective in herding smart legislation through the Assembly.

“I have spent six years in office dedicating myself to listening and learning,” she said. “This entire summer, we've been working on reintroducing bills, working on new bills, and listening to our constituents and saying, where can we find solutions to help people in their everyday lives? Where can we reduce expenses? Where can we make their lives safer, better, more vibrant? 

“I think I'm uniquely positioned to do that because I have built relationships not just in the last six years in the legislature, but in my 31 years here in this community. That gives me a unique and deep understanding of this community and the people who live here.”